Former The Good Men Project Executive Editor Joanna Schroeder recently issued a “lesson in ‘misandry,’ in 11 tweets.”1 In the past we’ve found her work while at TGMP to be something of a mixed bag, but it’s been a while since we checked in with her at FC2 — she’s left TGMP and moved on to YourTango — so let’s see how she’s evolved:
Misandry = A prejudice against men … And yes, it's real. But stay with me here.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
She acknowledges that misandry is real … that’s a great first step that has often eluded many top tier feminists. She follows that with “But stay with me here” … as if she just said something ridiculous. That’s actually good, too. She’s not preaching to the converted, she’s aiming this lesson at those who are skeptical. This is good.
Misandry is the complicated process by which society enforces dangerous, damaging myths about men and masculinity.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
Um, OK. It’s a helluva a lot more than just “myths about men,” but maybe she’s just winding up.
Misandry happens when we excuse bad choices or behavior of a man or boy with "boys will be boys" or invoking the "locker room talk" defense.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
Uh oh. I hope this isn’t the old ‘misandry is not demanding men do more/be more’ trope.
Misandry = implying that there should be lower, lesser expectations for men when it comes to humanity, humility, respect, or empathy.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
Doh!
Misandry is the implication that men are somehow less than women in their ability to love and care for children or the home.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
This could be read in one of two ways. Giving JS the benefit of the doubt, yes, we need to stop presuming that men are potential pedophiles and predators, or subscribing to stereotypes that women know best when it comes to the domestic sphere.3
Misandry, then, is the expectation that men should be breadwinners, while women should be caretakers.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
I have a lot of mixed feelings about this one, TBH. The thing is, a big driver of the “expectation that men should be breadwinners” is women’s dating preferences. Is Joanna prepared to say that vast swaths of women are misandrist?4
I find this to be a challenging issue. I think people should be free to choose who they want to choose for their mates, but at the same time there’s no question that women’s apparent preference for socially dominant men (including men with high status and high incomes) has a toxic impact on men’s ability to be emotionally authentic.5
Now, I want to be clear. I’m not claiming that women’s dating preferences are the only part of this dynamic. What we are talking about is the male dominance hierarchy which is often enforced by other men. However, women are (largely) spared having to participate in that hierarchy6 and despite the reams of feminist literature out there, I’ve rarely encountered one that acknowledged how key this hierarchy is to the whole patriarchal structure, and how oppressive it is to the vast majority of men who are compelled to participate in it and do not end up sitting at its apex.
It’s a challenging topic and I’d be interested to know more about where Joanna actually stands on this. I’ve rarely seen mainstream feminists acknowledge how big an impact women’s dating choices have on the maintenance of patriarchal expectations.
Misandry, then – though harmful – is not equal to misogyny in its danger to individuals or society.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
OK, this tweet is completely out of the blue and lacks a foundation in this particular stream, though it certainly seems to be an article of faith among many mainstream feminists. I suppose, depending on your metrics, it’s conceivable it could be true, but when you consider that in the US, men are overwhelmingly the main victims of genital mutilation, overwhelmingly the gender which is killed on the job,7 and overwhelmingly the gender most populating the hellholes we call prisons, as well as the gender most frequently targeted for violence by both men AND women, that would have to be a supremely ‘well-crafted’8 set of metrics.
Misandry doesn't oppress men or keep them down. It doesn't limit their ability to earn. in fact, it empowers them by excusing bad behavior.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
OK, this is head-desk territory. It’s infuriating (and frankly, inspired me to write this post).
Joanna Schroeder is an extremely intelligent woman who has spent a good part of her career immersed in gender issues affecting men. How can she possibly make this absurd claim? The level of ideological bias one would have to have internalized in order to tweet this after having been exposed to the issues described by some excellent writers and many great commenters at TGMP is astounding.
Joanna herself has even acknowledged some of these issues. I recall her rather pointedly and courageously standing by her assertion that male circumcision is a “human rights issue.” How can she then claim that misandry doesn’t oppress men?
Misandry empowers toxic masculinity by EXPECTING it. It elevates men who harm others. It oppresses femininity by its very nature.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
OK, I guess I agree with this to some extent. Joanna appears to be critiquing the male dominance hierarchy I was just talking about. My suspicion, though, is that she doesn’t actually understand this, and hasn’t fully thought through the implications of it.
Moreover, I suspect disagree with her use of “femininity” here. I think part of the misandry of our culture is that we take much of everyone’s emotionally vulnerable nature and put it under the “feminine” brand instead of under the “human” brand where it really belongs.
Misandry's real, but it doesn't harm men most. Because the "prejuding" done in our misandrist system has put men into power for generations.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
Sigh. This is so wrong.
The only real solution for misandry is, of course, feminism. Needed not just for girls/women but for boys who'll be harmed by misandry, too.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
Joanna’s prior tweets have sadly completely undercut her claim here. A feminism that is willfully blind to the reality that misandry oppresses men is incapable of providing a genuine solution for those men.
The truth is, misandry is IMPOSSIBLE to unwind from patriarchy. They are two side of the same coin, fed by the same system.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
I could agree with this, but I strongly suspect that Joanna and I have very different definitions of the word “patriarchy.” My definition is that it’s a gender system that elevates certain kinds of men and women while oppressing other kinds of men and women. Since it’s become clear that few in the genderverse use the term in this way, I’ve started to refrain from using it (unless I’ve had the opportunity to clarify my usage first).
Stereotypes about men, prejudices against men, toxic masculinity are all part of what has made patriarchy so powerful, made men so powerful.
— joanna schroeder (@iproposethis) March 22, 2017
I’m not sure this is entirely true, but I suppose it’s true to an extent. However, if — as appears clear — Joanna’s idea is that misandry is ONLY comprised of stereotypes, myths, and low expectations, then she’s missing much more than half the picture.
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- Actually 14 tweets.
- Well TBH it’s been a while since we’ve done anything here at FC.
- But I can’t help but wonder if JS actually meant the opposite here. Fingers crossed, though!
- I suspect not. FTR, I’m not making that claim either.
- Similarly, men’s disproportionate attraction to female youth has a burdensome impact on women as a whole.
- Though they are subject to others.
- Including the gender most murdered on the job, contrary to misleading articles you might see in places like HuffPo.
- Some might say ‘morally gerrymandered.
